Were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?Pesach/Passover Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Best answer contest: Second quarter of 5779 To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…War between Ten Tribes and YehudaIs there any current rav or authority that issues conditional gittin?Did what David do to Batsheba and Uriah technically legal (not sin?)In what way were David's descendants kohanim? (2 Samuel 8:18 וּבְנֵי דָוִד, כֹּהֲנִים הָיוּ)From where does Rabbi Nachman know that King David's Lyre possessed 5 strings?Did King David's parents abandon him? (Psalm 27)A holistic explanation of King David's use of AvishagPsalm 41:10 Who is King David's friend who lifted his heel against him?

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Were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?



Pesach/Passover
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Best answer contest: Second quarter of 5779
To celebrate Mi Yodeya's tenth birthday, let's divide and conquer the entire…War between Ten Tribes and YehudaIs there any current rav or authority that issues conditional gittin?Did what David do to Batsheba and Uriah technically legal (not sin?)In what way were David's descendants kohanim? (2 Samuel 8:18 וּבְנֵי דָוִד, כֹּהֲנִים הָיוּ)From where does Rabbi Nachman know that King David's Lyre possessed 5 strings?Did King David's parents abandon him? (Psalm 27)A holistic explanation of King David's use of AvishagPsalm 41:10 Who is King David's friend who lifted his heel against him?










1















The gemara in a couple places (Shabbos 56a, Kesuvos 9b) tells us that before leaving to battle, the soldiers in King David's army would give a conditional get to their wives in order to prevent a situation where if a soldier did not return from battle and there were no witnesses to his fate, the wife wouldn't be an agunah and would be able to remarry.



Now if a Levi or Yisrael was presumed missing but then found, they could easily remarry their wife. However, a Kohein would be unable to remarry his wife since he is prohibited from marrying a divorcée.



In light of this, were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

    – Double AA♦
    1 hour ago












  • If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

    – DonielF
    1 hour ago











  • @DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

    – alicht
    59 mins ago











  • Masuach milchama...

    – kouty
    55 mins ago















1















The gemara in a couple places (Shabbos 56a, Kesuvos 9b) tells us that before leaving to battle, the soldiers in King David's army would give a conditional get to their wives in order to prevent a situation where if a soldier did not return from battle and there were no witnesses to his fate, the wife wouldn't be an agunah and would be able to remarry.



Now if a Levi or Yisrael was presumed missing but then found, they could easily remarry their wife. However, a Kohein would be unable to remarry his wife since he is prohibited from marrying a divorcée.



In light of this, were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

    – Double AA♦
    1 hour ago












  • If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

    – DonielF
    1 hour ago











  • @DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

    – alicht
    59 mins ago











  • Masuach milchama...

    – kouty
    55 mins ago













1












1








1








The gemara in a couple places (Shabbos 56a, Kesuvos 9b) tells us that before leaving to battle, the soldiers in King David's army would give a conditional get to their wives in order to prevent a situation where if a soldier did not return from battle and there were no witnesses to his fate, the wife wouldn't be an agunah and would be able to remarry.



Now if a Levi or Yisrael was presumed missing but then found, they could easily remarry their wife. However, a Kohein would be unable to remarry his wife since he is prohibited from marrying a divorcée.



In light of this, were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?










share|improve this question














The gemara in a couple places (Shabbos 56a, Kesuvos 9b) tells us that before leaving to battle, the soldiers in King David's army would give a conditional get to their wives in order to prevent a situation where if a soldier did not return from battle and there were no witnesses to his fate, the wife wouldn't be an agunah and would be able to remarry.



Now if a Levi or Yisrael was presumed missing but then found, they could easily remarry their wife. However, a Kohein would be unable to remarry his wife since he is prohibited from marrying a divorcée.



In light of this, were Kohanim forbidden from serving in King David's army?







army-military-war divorce king-david






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 1 hour ago









alichtalicht

2,8371634




2,8371634







  • 1





    Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

    – Double AA♦
    1 hour ago












  • If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

    – DonielF
    1 hour ago











  • @DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

    – alicht
    59 mins ago











  • Masuach milchama...

    – kouty
    55 mins ago












  • 1





    Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

    – Double AA♦
    1 hour ago












  • If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

    – DonielF
    1 hour ago











  • @DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

    – alicht
    59 mins ago











  • Masuach milchama...

    – kouty
    55 mins ago







1




1





Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

– Double AA♦
1 hour ago






Benayahu ben Yehoyada was one of David's main warriors. I don't know if he was an exception.

– Double AA♦
1 hour ago














If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

– DonielF
1 hour ago





If the get was conditional, then would they even have to remarry their wives? Once the Kohen finally turns up, the get should be annulled retroactively. Unless the condition was that they didn’t return within X days of the war ending, in which case that’s not reason to prohibit them, but rather a risk that the Kohanim would be required to take.

– DonielF
1 hour ago













@DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

– alicht
59 mins ago





@DonielF right- majority of the time would hopefully be ok, but the edge cases (ex: set amount of time expires and then husband appears, miraculously appears, is held hostage -> conditional get is granted -> is freed) would be a problem

– alicht
59 mins ago













Masuach milchama...

– kouty
55 mins ago





Masuach milchama...

– kouty
55 mins ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3














This is the subject of an old debate when it comes to kohanim giving conditional divorces. R. Mordechai Ben Hillel wrote that one cannot bring a proof from the fact that kohanim at war gave such conditional divorces, because it is possible that there were no kohanim there (as even the mashuach milchama could have left after making the announcements), and according to some interpretations the divorces of those going to war were not conditional, but full-fledged divorces.



Mordechai Gittin # 432




אמנם אין להביא ראיה מכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' דהא גם כהנים היו עמהם ולכל הפחות צריך להיות עמהם כהן אחד הקורא מי האיש הירא ורך הלבב דא"כ מה שאל התלמוד פ"ק דקדושין כהן מהו ביפת תואר תיפוק ליה דכהן היה במלחמה דגם כהן משוח היה במלחמה אלא ודאי לא קאי עליה דשמא היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס בעורכי המלחמה גם בנדון זה לא תפשוט ועוד דיש מפרשים דההיא דכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' שהיו נותנין גט גמור מעכשיו כדפי' בפ"ק דכתובות ובשבת בפרק במה בהמה ע"כ




However, R. Binyamin Ze'ev Ben Matityahu did bring precisely this proof from the fact that there must have been kohanim at the war:



Shu"t Binyamin Ze'ev # 102




תדע דגבי מלחמת בית דוד אמרינן בשבת פ' במה בהמ' ומייתי לה נמי פ"ק דכתובות דכל היוצא במלחמת בית דוד גט כריתות כותב לאשתו פירוש ע"ת שאם ימות במלחמה תהא מגורשת והתם ע"כ צ"ל דהיה שם כהן דהא כהן משוח מלחמה היה עמהם שקורא אליהם בלשון הקדש שמע ישראל אתם קרבים היום למלחמה וכהן מדב' ושוטר משמיע כדאיתא בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה ואי אפשר לומר דאחר שהיה קורא הכהן הפסוק לישראל היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס לעורכי מלחמה דהא הארון יוצא עמהם במלחמה כדכתיב כי ה' אלהיכם ההולך עמכם ופירש"י בפרשת שופטים ההולך עמכם זה מחנה הארון וה' וכל כינוייו עומדים בארון כדפירש"י בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה והארון הכהנים היו נושאין אותו ובודאי כשהיה חוזר ההוא כהן היה מחזיר את אשתו ומקיימה ואי איתא דחיישינן מתנאו איך היה מחזירה ההוא כהן הא גרושה היתה אם היה מת במלחמה אלא ע"כ צ"ל מדהיה מחזירה הו' וכל א' מישראל דהא בא בתוך הזמן ולא נגמר התנאי בטל הגט מאליו וחוזר ומקיימה ולא פסלה מן הכהונה







share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

    – Double AA♦
    26 mins ago











  • @DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

    – Alex
    13 mins ago


















1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









3














This is the subject of an old debate when it comes to kohanim giving conditional divorces. R. Mordechai Ben Hillel wrote that one cannot bring a proof from the fact that kohanim at war gave such conditional divorces, because it is possible that there were no kohanim there (as even the mashuach milchama could have left after making the announcements), and according to some interpretations the divorces of those going to war were not conditional, but full-fledged divorces.



Mordechai Gittin # 432




אמנם אין להביא ראיה מכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' דהא גם כהנים היו עמהם ולכל הפחות צריך להיות עמהם כהן אחד הקורא מי האיש הירא ורך הלבב דא"כ מה שאל התלמוד פ"ק דקדושין כהן מהו ביפת תואר תיפוק ליה דכהן היה במלחמה דגם כהן משוח היה במלחמה אלא ודאי לא קאי עליה דשמא היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס בעורכי המלחמה גם בנדון זה לא תפשוט ועוד דיש מפרשים דההיא דכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' שהיו נותנין גט גמור מעכשיו כדפי' בפ"ק דכתובות ובשבת בפרק במה בהמה ע"כ




However, R. Binyamin Ze'ev Ben Matityahu did bring precisely this proof from the fact that there must have been kohanim at the war:



Shu"t Binyamin Ze'ev # 102




תדע דגבי מלחמת בית דוד אמרינן בשבת פ' במה בהמ' ומייתי לה נמי פ"ק דכתובות דכל היוצא במלחמת בית דוד גט כריתות כותב לאשתו פירוש ע"ת שאם ימות במלחמה תהא מגורשת והתם ע"כ צ"ל דהיה שם כהן דהא כהן משוח מלחמה היה עמהם שקורא אליהם בלשון הקדש שמע ישראל אתם קרבים היום למלחמה וכהן מדב' ושוטר משמיע כדאיתא בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה ואי אפשר לומר דאחר שהיה קורא הכהן הפסוק לישראל היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס לעורכי מלחמה דהא הארון יוצא עמהם במלחמה כדכתיב כי ה' אלהיכם ההולך עמכם ופירש"י בפרשת שופטים ההולך עמכם זה מחנה הארון וה' וכל כינוייו עומדים בארון כדפירש"י בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה והארון הכהנים היו נושאין אותו ובודאי כשהיה חוזר ההוא כהן היה מחזיר את אשתו ומקיימה ואי איתא דחיישינן מתנאו איך היה מחזירה ההוא כהן הא גרושה היתה אם היה מת במלחמה אלא ע"כ צ"ל מדהיה מחזירה הו' וכל א' מישראל דהא בא בתוך הזמן ולא נגמר התנאי בטל הגט מאליו וחוזר ומקיימה ולא פסלה מן הכהונה







share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

    – Double AA♦
    26 mins ago











  • @DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

    – Alex
    13 mins ago















3














This is the subject of an old debate when it comes to kohanim giving conditional divorces. R. Mordechai Ben Hillel wrote that one cannot bring a proof from the fact that kohanim at war gave such conditional divorces, because it is possible that there were no kohanim there (as even the mashuach milchama could have left after making the announcements), and according to some interpretations the divorces of those going to war were not conditional, but full-fledged divorces.



Mordechai Gittin # 432




אמנם אין להביא ראיה מכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' דהא גם כהנים היו עמהם ולכל הפחות צריך להיות עמהם כהן אחד הקורא מי האיש הירא ורך הלבב דא"כ מה שאל התלמוד פ"ק דקדושין כהן מהו ביפת תואר תיפוק ליה דכהן היה במלחמה דגם כהן משוח היה במלחמה אלא ודאי לא קאי עליה דשמא היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס בעורכי המלחמה גם בנדון זה לא תפשוט ועוד דיש מפרשים דההיא דכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' שהיו נותנין גט גמור מעכשיו כדפי' בפ"ק דכתובות ובשבת בפרק במה בהמה ע"כ




However, R. Binyamin Ze'ev Ben Matityahu did bring precisely this proof from the fact that there must have been kohanim at the war:



Shu"t Binyamin Ze'ev # 102




תדע דגבי מלחמת בית דוד אמרינן בשבת פ' במה בהמ' ומייתי לה נמי פ"ק דכתובות דכל היוצא במלחמת בית דוד גט כריתות כותב לאשתו פירוש ע"ת שאם ימות במלחמה תהא מגורשת והתם ע"כ צ"ל דהיה שם כהן דהא כהן משוח מלחמה היה עמהם שקורא אליהם בלשון הקדש שמע ישראל אתם קרבים היום למלחמה וכהן מדב' ושוטר משמיע כדאיתא בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה ואי אפשר לומר דאחר שהיה קורא הכהן הפסוק לישראל היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס לעורכי מלחמה דהא הארון יוצא עמהם במלחמה כדכתיב כי ה' אלהיכם ההולך עמכם ופירש"י בפרשת שופטים ההולך עמכם זה מחנה הארון וה' וכל כינוייו עומדים בארון כדפירש"י בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה והארון הכהנים היו נושאין אותו ובודאי כשהיה חוזר ההוא כהן היה מחזיר את אשתו ומקיימה ואי איתא דחיישינן מתנאו איך היה מחזירה ההוא כהן הא גרושה היתה אם היה מת במלחמה אלא ע"כ צ"ל מדהיה מחזירה הו' וכל א' מישראל דהא בא בתוך הזמן ולא נגמר התנאי בטל הגט מאליו וחוזר ומקיימה ולא פסלה מן הכהונה







share|improve this answer

























  • Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

    – Double AA♦
    26 mins ago











  • @DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

    – Alex
    13 mins ago













3












3








3







This is the subject of an old debate when it comes to kohanim giving conditional divorces. R. Mordechai Ben Hillel wrote that one cannot bring a proof from the fact that kohanim at war gave such conditional divorces, because it is possible that there were no kohanim there (as even the mashuach milchama could have left after making the announcements), and according to some interpretations the divorces of those going to war were not conditional, but full-fledged divorces.



Mordechai Gittin # 432




אמנם אין להביא ראיה מכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' דהא גם כהנים היו עמהם ולכל הפחות צריך להיות עמהם כהן אחד הקורא מי האיש הירא ורך הלבב דא"כ מה שאל התלמוד פ"ק דקדושין כהן מהו ביפת תואר תיפוק ליה דכהן היה במלחמה דגם כהן משוח היה במלחמה אלא ודאי לא קאי עליה דשמא היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס בעורכי המלחמה גם בנדון זה לא תפשוט ועוד דיש מפרשים דההיא דכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' שהיו נותנין גט גמור מעכשיו כדפי' בפ"ק דכתובות ובשבת בפרק במה בהמה ע"כ




However, R. Binyamin Ze'ev Ben Matityahu did bring precisely this proof from the fact that there must have been kohanim at the war:



Shu"t Binyamin Ze'ev # 102




תדע דגבי מלחמת בית דוד אמרינן בשבת פ' במה בהמ' ומייתי לה נמי פ"ק דכתובות דכל היוצא במלחמת בית דוד גט כריתות כותב לאשתו פירוש ע"ת שאם ימות במלחמה תהא מגורשת והתם ע"כ צ"ל דהיה שם כהן דהא כהן משוח מלחמה היה עמהם שקורא אליהם בלשון הקדש שמע ישראל אתם קרבים היום למלחמה וכהן מדב' ושוטר משמיע כדאיתא בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה ואי אפשר לומר דאחר שהיה קורא הכהן הפסוק לישראל היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס לעורכי מלחמה דהא הארון יוצא עמהם במלחמה כדכתיב כי ה' אלהיכם ההולך עמכם ופירש"י בפרשת שופטים ההולך עמכם זה מחנה הארון וה' וכל כינוייו עומדים בארון כדפירש"י בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה והארון הכהנים היו נושאין אותו ובודאי כשהיה חוזר ההוא כהן היה מחזיר את אשתו ומקיימה ואי איתא דחיישינן מתנאו איך היה מחזירה ההוא כהן הא גרושה היתה אם היה מת במלחמה אלא ע"כ צ"ל מדהיה מחזירה הו' וכל א' מישראל דהא בא בתוך הזמן ולא נגמר התנאי בטל הגט מאליו וחוזר ומקיימה ולא פסלה מן הכהונה







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This is the subject of an old debate when it comes to kohanim giving conditional divorces. R. Mordechai Ben Hillel wrote that one cannot bring a proof from the fact that kohanim at war gave such conditional divorces, because it is possible that there were no kohanim there (as even the mashuach milchama could have left after making the announcements), and according to some interpretations the divorces of those going to war were not conditional, but full-fledged divorces.



Mordechai Gittin # 432




אמנם אין להביא ראיה מכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' דהא גם כהנים היו עמהם ולכל הפחות צריך להיות עמהם כהן אחד הקורא מי האיש הירא ורך הלבב דא"כ מה שאל התלמוד פ"ק דקדושין כהן מהו ביפת תואר תיפוק ליה דכהן היה במלחמה דגם כהן משוח היה במלחמה אלא ודאי לא קאי עליה דשמא היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס בעורכי המלחמה גם בנדון זה לא תפשוט ועוד דיש מפרשים דההיא דכל היוצא למלחמת בית דוד כו' שהיו נותנין גט גמור מעכשיו כדפי' בפ"ק דכתובות ובשבת בפרק במה בהמה ע"כ




However, R. Binyamin Ze'ev Ben Matityahu did bring precisely this proof from the fact that there must have been kohanim at the war:



Shu"t Binyamin Ze'ev # 102




תדע דגבי מלחמת בית דוד אמרינן בשבת פ' במה בהמ' ומייתי לה נמי פ"ק דכתובות דכל היוצא במלחמת בית דוד גט כריתות כותב לאשתו פירוש ע"ת שאם ימות במלחמה תהא מגורשת והתם ע"כ צ"ל דהיה שם כהן דהא כהן משוח מלחמה היה עמהם שקורא אליהם בלשון הקדש שמע ישראל אתם קרבים היום למלחמה וכהן מדב' ושוטר משמיע כדאיתא בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה ואי אפשר לומר דאחר שהיה קורא הכהן הפסוק לישראל היה חוזר לביתו ולא היה נכנס לעורכי מלחמה דהא הארון יוצא עמהם במלחמה כדכתיב כי ה' אלהיכם ההולך עמכם ופירש"י בפרשת שופטים ההולך עמכם זה מחנה הארון וה' וכל כינוייו עומדים בארון כדפירש"י בסוטה פרק משוח מלחמה והארון הכהנים היו נושאין אותו ובודאי כשהיה חוזר ההוא כהן היה מחזיר את אשתו ומקיימה ואי איתא דחיישינן מתנאו איך היה מחזירה ההוא כהן הא גרושה היתה אם היה מת במלחמה אלא ע"כ צ"ל מדהיה מחזירה הו' וכל א' מישראל דהא בא בתוך הזמן ולא נגמר התנאי בטל הגט מאליו וחוזר ומקיימה ולא פסלה מן הכהונה








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edited 25 mins ago

























answered 29 mins ago









AlexAlex

23.8k157135




23.8k157135












  • Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

    – Double AA♦
    26 mins ago











  • @DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

    – Alex
    13 mins ago

















  • Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

    – Double AA♦
    26 mins ago











  • @DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

    – Alex
    13 mins ago
















Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

– Double AA♦
26 mins ago





Interesting that they don't mention Benyahau as I did

– Double AA♦
26 mins ago













@DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

– Alex
13 mins ago





@DoubleAA I saw someone ask that as a question on the Mordechai.

– Alex
13 mins ago



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