Nehtdx

My understanding is before 1970, no Jazz players thought about modes. For certain, Charlie Parker, Colman Hawkins, Bud Powell, Art Tatum, Monk, etc never thought in modes.

Barry Harris shows how they did think, and it seems alot more simple and true to the form. Modes seem to me a projection of Western Academic ideas unto african american idioms, with little understanding or respect to the ideas behind those idioms. Basically a "takeover" of Jazz.

Please set me straight.

My understanding is before 1970, no Jazz players thought about modes.

This is incorrect, see this question: How does modal jazz use chord progressions?

A: Modes became of interest over time as a way to organize what pitches to use over certain chords and sounds. This is a naturally arising phenomenon when there are many sounds to consider and memorize what notes work over each sound. Chord scales are a convenient way of organizing what notes to play over what chords, and chord scales are inherently modes. Naturally, musicians began to play around with these modes because they offered a different way of looking at the same notes they already knew. There was no "takeover", unless jazz musicians were trying to "take over" jazz itself and expand its lexicon with new ideas.

Modes seem to me a projection of Western Academic ideas unto african american idioms, with little understanding or respect to the ideas behind those idioms. Basically a "takeover" of Jazz.

This is a projection that jazz somehow existed before ... well, before it existed. The part I highlighted is also in my estimation an egregiously bad projection that ideas somehow aren't allowed to (or simply can't) meld into one another, borrow back and forth, and so on. This is bad because this is precisely how Jazz came about. Jazz arose out of the musical traditions centered around New Orleans at the turn of the 20th century, which was a hot pot of everything you could imagine - namely military march music, funeral march music, dance music of the time, and music played in brothels. Remember, also, that New Orleans was a very important port city in the 1800s, meaning that much influence also came from the Caribbean and various Hispanic nations to the south. Improvisation is also nothing new even to European music: Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven were well known in their day for being able to improvise - and in the Renaissance era, improvising over a cantus firmus was an important tool for teaching counterpoint (i.e., composition). However, improvisation in the way we think of it today tends to come out of the Jazz, Blues, and Rock idioms that developed in 20th century America.