Did Mueller's report provide an evidentiary basis for the claim of Russian govt election interference via social media? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)What are the rules for reporting vote counts on election night by the news media?What caused the Rep. party members' dramatic shift on views on Russia?Why are politicians so obsessed with Russian/WikiLeaks interfering of US elections while some foreign governments openly took sides?What is the rationale for foreign interference in a democratic election being intrinsically bad?What is the evidence for the Trump/Russia investigation?How many people in the US watch RT programming regularly?Can the UK afford to extend sanctions to financial ones as a response to latest ex-spy's murder?How exactly does Donald Trump's administration benefit Russia in 2017-2018?Has Trump's position on the existence of Russian meddling been consistent (in the past few months)?What's the extent of Russian involvement in Brexit, according to latest research?
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Did Mueller's report provide an evidentiary basis for the claim of Russian govt election interference via social media?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)What are the rules for reporting vote counts on election night by the news media?What caused the Rep. party members' dramatic shift on views on Russia?Why are politicians so obsessed with Russian/WikiLeaks interfering of US elections while some foreign governments openly took sides?What is the rationale for foreign interference in a democratic election being intrinsically bad?What is the evidence for the Trump/Russia investigation?How many people in the US watch RT programming regularly?Can the UK afford to extend sanctions to financial ones as a response to latest ex-spy's murder?How exactly does Donald Trump's administration benefit Russia in 2017-2018?Has Trump's position on the existence of Russian meddling been consistent (in the past few months)?What's the extent of Russian involvement in Brexit, according to latest research?
Over the past several years, many in the US (government and mainstream media) have argued that the Russian government ("The Russians") interfered with the 2016 US elections through the "Internet Research Agency" - a sort of a social media campaigning company / troll farm. It ran some some small-scale campaigns before, during and after the US 2016 elections, with some content supportive of Trump (although to be honest some of those pro-Trump images seem ridiculous enough to have the opposite effect), some critical of Trump, content in support of or against other causes, including the promotion of events or rallies, etc. Some of this happened before the elections, some after; I've even heard the claim that most effort or money was spent after the elections but I may be wrong on this. At least once they even organized opposing rallies. (see this piece for some examples of IRA-originated memes). The total amount of money they spent in 2016 on promoting such content is said to have been $100,000.
When I initially heard about this, I was unconvinced that this a Russian government effort to destabilize the US or to swing the US elections. The amount of money is minuscule (relative to campaigns' media budget), the timing of its spending is off, and subjectively it didn't even seem to me to be a serious effort to get people to support Trump (sometimes more like the opposite). As a lay user, I found this looked more like glorified trolling than international political interference. Several critics (in alternative media mostly) have also expressed such skepticism.
Now that the (redacted version of) Mueller report is out - is there any newly-revealed evidence to support the characterization of these IRA activities as Russian government interference in the US elections? And - what is the new evidence?
Notes:
- I mean evidence - not assertions, intelligence estimates, conclusions, allusions etc.
- On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release.
- Circumstantial evidence is relevant as an answer, but of course its significance is limited.
- There is this annoying use of the term "The Russians" to conflate people living in Russia, Russian companies and the Russian government, all together. I'm specifically asking about the Russian government.
united-states russian-federation mueller-investigation
|
show 9 more comments
Over the past several years, many in the US (government and mainstream media) have argued that the Russian government ("The Russians") interfered with the 2016 US elections through the "Internet Research Agency" - a sort of a social media campaigning company / troll farm. It ran some some small-scale campaigns before, during and after the US 2016 elections, with some content supportive of Trump (although to be honest some of those pro-Trump images seem ridiculous enough to have the opposite effect), some critical of Trump, content in support of or against other causes, including the promotion of events or rallies, etc. Some of this happened before the elections, some after; I've even heard the claim that most effort or money was spent after the elections but I may be wrong on this. At least once they even organized opposing rallies. (see this piece for some examples of IRA-originated memes). The total amount of money they spent in 2016 on promoting such content is said to have been $100,000.
When I initially heard about this, I was unconvinced that this a Russian government effort to destabilize the US or to swing the US elections. The amount of money is minuscule (relative to campaigns' media budget), the timing of its spending is off, and subjectively it didn't even seem to me to be a serious effort to get people to support Trump (sometimes more like the opposite). As a lay user, I found this looked more like glorified trolling than international political interference. Several critics (in alternative media mostly) have also expressed such skepticism.
Now that the (redacted version of) Mueller report is out - is there any newly-revealed evidence to support the characterization of these IRA activities as Russian government interference in the US elections? And - what is the new evidence?
Notes:
- I mean evidence - not assertions, intelligence estimates, conclusions, allusions etc.
- On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release.
- Circumstantial evidence is relevant as an answer, but of course its significance is limited.
- There is this annoying use of the term "The Russians" to conflate people living in Russia, Russian companies and the Russian government, all together. I'm specifically asking about the Russian government.
united-states russian-federation mueller-investigation
+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
3
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
3
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
1
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
1
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
Over the past several years, many in the US (government and mainstream media) have argued that the Russian government ("The Russians") interfered with the 2016 US elections through the "Internet Research Agency" - a sort of a social media campaigning company / troll farm. It ran some some small-scale campaigns before, during and after the US 2016 elections, with some content supportive of Trump (although to be honest some of those pro-Trump images seem ridiculous enough to have the opposite effect), some critical of Trump, content in support of or against other causes, including the promotion of events or rallies, etc. Some of this happened before the elections, some after; I've even heard the claim that most effort or money was spent after the elections but I may be wrong on this. At least once they even organized opposing rallies. (see this piece for some examples of IRA-originated memes). The total amount of money they spent in 2016 on promoting such content is said to have been $100,000.
When I initially heard about this, I was unconvinced that this a Russian government effort to destabilize the US or to swing the US elections. The amount of money is minuscule (relative to campaigns' media budget), the timing of its spending is off, and subjectively it didn't even seem to me to be a serious effort to get people to support Trump (sometimes more like the opposite). As a lay user, I found this looked more like glorified trolling than international political interference. Several critics (in alternative media mostly) have also expressed such skepticism.
Now that the (redacted version of) Mueller report is out - is there any newly-revealed evidence to support the characterization of these IRA activities as Russian government interference in the US elections? And - what is the new evidence?
Notes:
- I mean evidence - not assertions, intelligence estimates, conclusions, allusions etc.
- On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release.
- Circumstantial evidence is relevant as an answer, but of course its significance is limited.
- There is this annoying use of the term "The Russians" to conflate people living in Russia, Russian companies and the Russian government, all together. I'm specifically asking about the Russian government.
united-states russian-federation mueller-investigation
Over the past several years, many in the US (government and mainstream media) have argued that the Russian government ("The Russians") interfered with the 2016 US elections through the "Internet Research Agency" - a sort of a social media campaigning company / troll farm. It ran some some small-scale campaigns before, during and after the US 2016 elections, with some content supportive of Trump (although to be honest some of those pro-Trump images seem ridiculous enough to have the opposite effect), some critical of Trump, content in support of or against other causes, including the promotion of events or rallies, etc. Some of this happened before the elections, some after; I've even heard the claim that most effort or money was spent after the elections but I may be wrong on this. At least once they even organized opposing rallies. (see this piece for some examples of IRA-originated memes). The total amount of money they spent in 2016 on promoting such content is said to have been $100,000.
When I initially heard about this, I was unconvinced that this a Russian government effort to destabilize the US or to swing the US elections. The amount of money is minuscule (relative to campaigns' media budget), the timing of its spending is off, and subjectively it didn't even seem to me to be a serious effort to get people to support Trump (sometimes more like the opposite). As a lay user, I found this looked more like glorified trolling than international political interference. Several critics (in alternative media mostly) have also expressed such skepticism.
Now that the (redacted version of) Mueller report is out - is there any newly-revealed evidence to support the characterization of these IRA activities as Russian government interference in the US elections? And - what is the new evidence?
Notes:
- I mean evidence - not assertions, intelligence estimates, conclusions, allusions etc.
- On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release.
- Circumstantial evidence is relevant as an answer, but of course its significance is limited.
- There is this annoying use of the term "The Russians" to conflate people living in Russia, Russian companies and the Russian government, all together. I'm specifically asking about the Russian government.
united-states russian-federation mueller-investigation
united-states russian-federation mueller-investigation
edited 25 mins ago
einpoklum
asked 2 hours ago
einpoklumeinpoklum
1,955826
1,955826
+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
3
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
3
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
1
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
1
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
3
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
3
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
1
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
1
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago
+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
3
3
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
3
3
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
1
1
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
1
1
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Probably
First, the report was heavily redacted. As such, some information is missing. Further, much of the information available in the Mueller report was previously available, so I won't try to determine which information is new, but rather summarize the evidence in the report.
Was there a group based in Russia conducting social media operations?
Yes. As mentioned in the question, that group is the IRA, the Internet Research Agency. From the report:
The first form of Russian election influence came principally from the
Internet Research Agency, LLC (IRA), a Russian organization funded by
Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin and companies he controlled, including
Concord Management and Consulting LLC and Concord Catering
(collectively "Concord"). The IRA conducted social media operations
targeted at large U.S. audiences with the goal of sowing discord in
the U.S. political system. These operations constituted "active
measures" (aKTMBHbie Meporrprumu), a term that typically refers to
operations conducted by Russian security services aimed at influencing
the course of international affairs.Was this group trying to influence elections in the US?
Yes. Seemingly they said that explicitly:
IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing
the US presidential election.Although the section surrounding this is entirely redacted, I presume that it includes a quote from internal IRA documents admitting this.
They also focused on US users:
To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from
Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S.
audience members. According to Facebook the IRA purchased over 3,500
advertisements , and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.And common sense simply suggests that when a group spends large amounts of money and labor on political advertisements, they're hoping to influence elections, and not simply trolling.
Did this group favor Trump?
Yes, kind of. Their internal documents explicitly said not to criticize Trump:
By 2016, internal IRA documents referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton. For example, [redacted] directions to IRA operators [redacted] “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest
(except Sanders and Trump – we support them.”This may have been more out of opposition to Clinton than positive views of Trump, though. This is supported by the inclusion of Sanders, as well as other internal information:
the author criticized the "lower number of posts dedicated to
criticizing Hillary Clinton" and reminded the Facebook specialist "it
is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."That said, they seem to have warmed to Trump later:
IRA-purchased advertisements referencing candidate Trump largely
supported his campaign. The first known IRA advertisement explicitly
endorsing the Trump Campaign was purchased on April 19, 2016.Was the Russian government behind this?
Probably. I doubt it can be proven for certain, but the circumstantial evidence is strong.
First, some of the leadership had close ties to the Russian government.
Two individuals headed the IRA's general management: its general
director, Mikhail Bystrov, and its executive director, Mikhail
Burchik.Bystrov was the head of a Russian national police organization before starting at the IRA.
As mentioned, the funding came from Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who has close ties to Putin.
None of this proves that the Russian government controlled or influenced the IRA. It is certainly possible that someone close to Putin would have views that aligned well with Putin's goals, and that they'd, and that they'd hire former top-level governmental employees because that's who they knew.
But I think it provides a strong suggestion. A group run by strong Putin allies engaging in clandestine operations favorable to Putin, operating in a state where Putin has a great deal of authority and knowledge? It's like super PACs in the United States: when they're run by close friends or allies of a candidate and very much in line with that candidate, there's very likely to be collusion going on.
Do note that there more explicit statements in the report about the purpose and funding of the IRA. Often they were backed up with redacted references, such as to FBI cases.
Finally, a sanity check. Is it implausible that the Russian government would try to influence politics in other countries? Probably not: many other countries have engaged in similar operations, including the United States, Israel, China etc. It is very common for these groups to be NGOs with the approval of the government, not a government group. This gives the government plausible deniability. As such, the idea that the IRA would conduct political influence campaigns for Putin isn't unsual, but rather quite typical.
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
According to CNET, Mueller did find that Russia used a social media campaign to influence the US election in favor of Donald Trump. The campaign cost $35 million (the $100K the question is referring to is just the cost of ads):
Mueller's investigation also found that Russia was backing a $35 million operation to meddle with US politics through social media.
The money was spent between January 2016 and June 2018 and dedicated to spreading disinformation on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The operation ran like a professional social media marketing campaign, with specific departments in search engine optimization and graphic design, along with a staff of hundreds who posted on social networks.
The group behind the effort, the Internet Research Agency, was directed to support Trump's campaign and attack Clinton, according to the investigation.
The operation also spent $60,000 on Facebook ads, $6,000 on Instagram ads and $18,000 on Twitter.
The details can be seen in the Mueller Report starting at page 14. A lot of specifics are redacted, but the report refers to and cites internal IRA documents as evidence, as well as statements by Facebook.
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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Probably
First, the report was heavily redacted. As such, some information is missing. Further, much of the information available in the Mueller report was previously available, so I won't try to determine which information is new, but rather summarize the evidence in the report.
Was there a group based in Russia conducting social media operations?
Yes. As mentioned in the question, that group is the IRA, the Internet Research Agency. From the report:
The first form of Russian election influence came principally from the
Internet Research Agency, LLC (IRA), a Russian organization funded by
Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin and companies he controlled, including
Concord Management and Consulting LLC and Concord Catering
(collectively "Concord"). The IRA conducted social media operations
targeted at large U.S. audiences with the goal of sowing discord in
the U.S. political system. These operations constituted "active
measures" (aKTMBHbie Meporrprumu), a term that typically refers to
operations conducted by Russian security services aimed at influencing
the course of international affairs.Was this group trying to influence elections in the US?
Yes. Seemingly they said that explicitly:
IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing
the US presidential election.Although the section surrounding this is entirely redacted, I presume that it includes a quote from internal IRA documents admitting this.
They also focused on US users:
To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from
Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S.
audience members. According to Facebook the IRA purchased over 3,500
advertisements , and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.And common sense simply suggests that when a group spends large amounts of money and labor on political advertisements, they're hoping to influence elections, and not simply trolling.
Did this group favor Trump?
Yes, kind of. Their internal documents explicitly said not to criticize Trump:
By 2016, internal IRA documents referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton. For example, [redacted] directions to IRA operators [redacted] “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest
(except Sanders and Trump – we support them.”This may have been more out of opposition to Clinton than positive views of Trump, though. This is supported by the inclusion of Sanders, as well as other internal information:
the author criticized the "lower number of posts dedicated to
criticizing Hillary Clinton" and reminded the Facebook specialist "it
is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."That said, they seem to have warmed to Trump later:
IRA-purchased advertisements referencing candidate Trump largely
supported his campaign. The first known IRA advertisement explicitly
endorsing the Trump Campaign was purchased on April 19, 2016.Was the Russian government behind this?
Probably. I doubt it can be proven for certain, but the circumstantial evidence is strong.
First, some of the leadership had close ties to the Russian government.
Two individuals headed the IRA's general management: its general
director, Mikhail Bystrov, and its executive director, Mikhail
Burchik.Bystrov was the head of a Russian national police organization before starting at the IRA.
As mentioned, the funding came from Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who has close ties to Putin.
None of this proves that the Russian government controlled or influenced the IRA. It is certainly possible that someone close to Putin would have views that aligned well with Putin's goals, and that they'd, and that they'd hire former top-level governmental employees because that's who they knew.
But I think it provides a strong suggestion. A group run by strong Putin allies engaging in clandestine operations favorable to Putin, operating in a state where Putin has a great deal of authority and knowledge? It's like super PACs in the United States: when they're run by close friends or allies of a candidate and very much in line with that candidate, there's very likely to be collusion going on.
Do note that there more explicit statements in the report about the purpose and funding of the IRA. Often they were backed up with redacted references, such as to FBI cases.
Finally, a sanity check. Is it implausible that the Russian government would try to influence politics in other countries? Probably not: many other countries have engaged in similar operations, including the United States, Israel, China etc. It is very common for these groups to be NGOs with the approval of the government, not a government group. This gives the government plausible deniability. As such, the idea that the IRA would conduct political influence campaigns for Putin isn't unsual, but rather quite typical.
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
Probably
First, the report was heavily redacted. As such, some information is missing. Further, much of the information available in the Mueller report was previously available, so I won't try to determine which information is new, but rather summarize the evidence in the report.
Was there a group based in Russia conducting social media operations?
Yes. As mentioned in the question, that group is the IRA, the Internet Research Agency. From the report:
The first form of Russian election influence came principally from the
Internet Research Agency, LLC (IRA), a Russian organization funded by
Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin and companies he controlled, including
Concord Management and Consulting LLC and Concord Catering
(collectively "Concord"). The IRA conducted social media operations
targeted at large U.S. audiences with the goal of sowing discord in
the U.S. political system. These operations constituted "active
measures" (aKTMBHbie Meporrprumu), a term that typically refers to
operations conducted by Russian security services aimed at influencing
the course of international affairs.Was this group trying to influence elections in the US?
Yes. Seemingly they said that explicitly:
IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing
the US presidential election.Although the section surrounding this is entirely redacted, I presume that it includes a quote from internal IRA documents admitting this.
They also focused on US users:
To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from
Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S.
audience members. According to Facebook the IRA purchased over 3,500
advertisements , and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.And common sense simply suggests that when a group spends large amounts of money and labor on political advertisements, they're hoping to influence elections, and not simply trolling.
Did this group favor Trump?
Yes, kind of. Their internal documents explicitly said not to criticize Trump:
By 2016, internal IRA documents referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton. For example, [redacted] directions to IRA operators [redacted] “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest
(except Sanders and Trump – we support them.”This may have been more out of opposition to Clinton than positive views of Trump, though. This is supported by the inclusion of Sanders, as well as other internal information:
the author criticized the "lower number of posts dedicated to
criticizing Hillary Clinton" and reminded the Facebook specialist "it
is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."That said, they seem to have warmed to Trump later:
IRA-purchased advertisements referencing candidate Trump largely
supported his campaign. The first known IRA advertisement explicitly
endorsing the Trump Campaign was purchased on April 19, 2016.Was the Russian government behind this?
Probably. I doubt it can be proven for certain, but the circumstantial evidence is strong.
First, some of the leadership had close ties to the Russian government.
Two individuals headed the IRA's general management: its general
director, Mikhail Bystrov, and its executive director, Mikhail
Burchik.Bystrov was the head of a Russian national police organization before starting at the IRA.
As mentioned, the funding came from Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who has close ties to Putin.
None of this proves that the Russian government controlled or influenced the IRA. It is certainly possible that someone close to Putin would have views that aligned well with Putin's goals, and that they'd, and that they'd hire former top-level governmental employees because that's who they knew.
But I think it provides a strong suggestion. A group run by strong Putin allies engaging in clandestine operations favorable to Putin, operating in a state where Putin has a great deal of authority and knowledge? It's like super PACs in the United States: when they're run by close friends or allies of a candidate and very much in line with that candidate, there's very likely to be collusion going on.
Do note that there more explicit statements in the report about the purpose and funding of the IRA. Often they were backed up with redacted references, such as to FBI cases.
Finally, a sanity check. Is it implausible that the Russian government would try to influence politics in other countries? Probably not: many other countries have engaged in similar operations, including the United States, Israel, China etc. It is very common for these groups to be NGOs with the approval of the government, not a government group. This gives the government plausible deniability. As such, the idea that the IRA would conduct political influence campaigns for Putin isn't unsual, but rather quite typical.
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
Probably
First, the report was heavily redacted. As such, some information is missing. Further, much of the information available in the Mueller report was previously available, so I won't try to determine which information is new, but rather summarize the evidence in the report.
Was there a group based in Russia conducting social media operations?
Yes. As mentioned in the question, that group is the IRA, the Internet Research Agency. From the report:
The first form of Russian election influence came principally from the
Internet Research Agency, LLC (IRA), a Russian organization funded by
Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin and companies he controlled, including
Concord Management and Consulting LLC and Concord Catering
(collectively "Concord"). The IRA conducted social media operations
targeted at large U.S. audiences with the goal of sowing discord in
the U.S. political system. These operations constituted "active
measures" (aKTMBHbie Meporrprumu), a term that typically refers to
operations conducted by Russian security services aimed at influencing
the course of international affairs.Was this group trying to influence elections in the US?
Yes. Seemingly they said that explicitly:
IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing
the US presidential election.Although the section surrounding this is entirely redacted, I presume that it includes a quote from internal IRA documents admitting this.
They also focused on US users:
To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from
Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S.
audience members. According to Facebook the IRA purchased over 3,500
advertisements , and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.And common sense simply suggests that when a group spends large amounts of money and labor on political advertisements, they're hoping to influence elections, and not simply trolling.
Did this group favor Trump?
Yes, kind of. Their internal documents explicitly said not to criticize Trump:
By 2016, internal IRA documents referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton. For example, [redacted] directions to IRA operators [redacted] “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest
(except Sanders and Trump – we support them.”This may have been more out of opposition to Clinton than positive views of Trump, though. This is supported by the inclusion of Sanders, as well as other internal information:
the author criticized the "lower number of posts dedicated to
criticizing Hillary Clinton" and reminded the Facebook specialist "it
is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."That said, they seem to have warmed to Trump later:
IRA-purchased advertisements referencing candidate Trump largely
supported his campaign. The first known IRA advertisement explicitly
endorsing the Trump Campaign was purchased on April 19, 2016.Was the Russian government behind this?
Probably. I doubt it can be proven for certain, but the circumstantial evidence is strong.
First, some of the leadership had close ties to the Russian government.
Two individuals headed the IRA's general management: its general
director, Mikhail Bystrov, and its executive director, Mikhail
Burchik.Bystrov was the head of a Russian national police organization before starting at the IRA.
As mentioned, the funding came from Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who has close ties to Putin.
None of this proves that the Russian government controlled or influenced the IRA. It is certainly possible that someone close to Putin would have views that aligned well with Putin's goals, and that they'd, and that they'd hire former top-level governmental employees because that's who they knew.
But I think it provides a strong suggestion. A group run by strong Putin allies engaging in clandestine operations favorable to Putin, operating in a state where Putin has a great deal of authority and knowledge? It's like super PACs in the United States: when they're run by close friends or allies of a candidate and very much in line with that candidate, there's very likely to be collusion going on.
Do note that there more explicit statements in the report about the purpose and funding of the IRA. Often they were backed up with redacted references, such as to FBI cases.
Finally, a sanity check. Is it implausible that the Russian government would try to influence politics in other countries? Probably not: many other countries have engaged in similar operations, including the United States, Israel, China etc. It is very common for these groups to be NGOs with the approval of the government, not a government group. This gives the government plausible deniability. As such, the idea that the IRA would conduct political influence campaigns for Putin isn't unsual, but rather quite typical.
Probably
First, the report was heavily redacted. As such, some information is missing. Further, much of the information available in the Mueller report was previously available, so I won't try to determine which information is new, but rather summarize the evidence in the report.
Was there a group based in Russia conducting social media operations?
Yes. As mentioned in the question, that group is the IRA, the Internet Research Agency. From the report:
The first form of Russian election influence came principally from the
Internet Research Agency, LLC (IRA), a Russian organization funded by
Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin and companies he controlled, including
Concord Management and Consulting LLC and Concord Catering
(collectively "Concord"). The IRA conducted social media operations
targeted at large U.S. audiences with the goal of sowing discord in
the U.S. political system. These operations constituted "active
measures" (aKTMBHbie Meporrprumu), a term that typically refers to
operations conducted by Russian security services aimed at influencing
the course of international affairs.Was this group trying to influence elections in the US?
Yes. Seemingly they said that explicitly:
IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing
the US presidential election.Although the section surrounding this is entirely redacted, I presume that it includes a quote from internal IRA documents admitting this.
They also focused on US users:
To reach larger U.S. audiences, the IRA purchased advertisements from
Facebook that promoted the IRA groups on the newsfeeds of U.S.
audience members. According to Facebook the IRA purchased over 3,500
advertisements , and the expenditures totaled approximately $100,000.And common sense simply suggests that when a group spends large amounts of money and labor on political advertisements, they're hoping to influence elections, and not simply trolling.
Did this group favor Trump?
Yes, kind of. Their internal documents explicitly said not to criticize Trump:
By 2016, internal IRA documents referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton. For example, [redacted] directions to IRA operators [redacted] “use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest
(except Sanders and Trump – we support them.”This may have been more out of opposition to Clinton than positive views of Trump, though. This is supported by the inclusion of Sanders, as well as other internal information:
the author criticized the "lower number of posts dedicated to
criticizing Hillary Clinton" and reminded the Facebook specialist "it
is imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."That said, they seem to have warmed to Trump later:
IRA-purchased advertisements referencing candidate Trump largely
supported his campaign. The first known IRA advertisement explicitly
endorsing the Trump Campaign was purchased on April 19, 2016.Was the Russian government behind this?
Probably. I doubt it can be proven for certain, but the circumstantial evidence is strong.
First, some of the leadership had close ties to the Russian government.
Two individuals headed the IRA's general management: its general
director, Mikhail Bystrov, and its executive director, Mikhail
Burchik.Bystrov was the head of a Russian national police organization before starting at the IRA.
As mentioned, the funding came from Yevgeniy Viktorovich Prigozhin, who has close ties to Putin.
None of this proves that the Russian government controlled or influenced the IRA. It is certainly possible that someone close to Putin would have views that aligned well with Putin's goals, and that they'd, and that they'd hire former top-level governmental employees because that's who they knew.
But I think it provides a strong suggestion. A group run by strong Putin allies engaging in clandestine operations favorable to Putin, operating in a state where Putin has a great deal of authority and knowledge? It's like super PACs in the United States: when they're run by close friends or allies of a candidate and very much in line with that candidate, there's very likely to be collusion going on.
Do note that there more explicit statements in the report about the purpose and funding of the IRA. Often they were backed up with redacted references, such as to FBI cases.
Finally, a sanity check. Is it implausible that the Russian government would try to influence politics in other countries? Probably not: many other countries have engaged in similar operations, including the United States, Israel, China etc. It is very common for these groups to be NGOs with the approval of the government, not a government group. This gives the government plausible deniability. As such, the idea that the IRA would conduct political influence campaigns for Putin isn't unsual, but rather quite typical.
answered 1 hour ago
Obie 2.0Obie 2.0
2,597824
2,597824
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
Please add references for your quotes. Specifically - Did Mueller's team interview IRA employees? As for the sanity check - it is implausible that the Russian government would choose to influence US elections with a small budget for buying mixed-message troll memes and posts.
– einpoklum
52 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I thought it was obvious. All of those are from the report.
– Obie 2.0
50 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
I looked for "IRA employees also acknowledged that their work focused on influencing the US presidential election" - couldn't find it. That sounds like new evidence.
– einpoklum
47 mins ago
1
1
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
The search doesn't work well on redacted documents. That's probably why you can't find it.
– Obie 2.0
45 mins ago
1
1
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
@einpoklum - What can I say? The situation described in the report is an influence operation with clear political goals to oppose Clinton (and to a lesser extent favor Trump), but whose connection to the Russian government, while probable, is not certain or provable. If that's not too far from the situation the day before the report, c'est la vie.
– Obie 2.0
33 mins ago
|
show 9 more comments
According to CNET, Mueller did find that Russia used a social media campaign to influence the US election in favor of Donald Trump. The campaign cost $35 million (the $100K the question is referring to is just the cost of ads):
Mueller's investigation also found that Russia was backing a $35 million operation to meddle with US politics through social media.
The money was spent between January 2016 and June 2018 and dedicated to spreading disinformation on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The operation ran like a professional social media marketing campaign, with specific departments in search engine optimization and graphic design, along with a staff of hundreds who posted on social networks.
The group behind the effort, the Internet Research Agency, was directed to support Trump's campaign and attack Clinton, according to the investigation.
The operation also spent $60,000 on Facebook ads, $6,000 on Instagram ads and $18,000 on Twitter.
The details can be seen in the Mueller Report starting at page 14. A lot of specifics are redacted, but the report refers to and cites internal IRA documents as evidence, as well as statements by Facebook.
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
add a comment |
According to CNET, Mueller did find that Russia used a social media campaign to influence the US election in favor of Donald Trump. The campaign cost $35 million (the $100K the question is referring to is just the cost of ads):
Mueller's investigation also found that Russia was backing a $35 million operation to meddle with US politics through social media.
The money was spent between January 2016 and June 2018 and dedicated to spreading disinformation on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The operation ran like a professional social media marketing campaign, with specific departments in search engine optimization and graphic design, along with a staff of hundreds who posted on social networks.
The group behind the effort, the Internet Research Agency, was directed to support Trump's campaign and attack Clinton, according to the investigation.
The operation also spent $60,000 on Facebook ads, $6,000 on Instagram ads and $18,000 on Twitter.
The details can be seen in the Mueller Report starting at page 14. A lot of specifics are redacted, but the report refers to and cites internal IRA documents as evidence, as well as statements by Facebook.
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
add a comment |
According to CNET, Mueller did find that Russia used a social media campaign to influence the US election in favor of Donald Trump. The campaign cost $35 million (the $100K the question is referring to is just the cost of ads):
Mueller's investigation also found that Russia was backing a $35 million operation to meddle with US politics through social media.
The money was spent between January 2016 and June 2018 and dedicated to spreading disinformation on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The operation ran like a professional social media marketing campaign, with specific departments in search engine optimization and graphic design, along with a staff of hundreds who posted on social networks.
The group behind the effort, the Internet Research Agency, was directed to support Trump's campaign and attack Clinton, according to the investigation.
The operation also spent $60,000 on Facebook ads, $6,000 on Instagram ads and $18,000 on Twitter.
The details can be seen in the Mueller Report starting at page 14. A lot of specifics are redacted, but the report refers to and cites internal IRA documents as evidence, as well as statements by Facebook.
According to CNET, Mueller did find that Russia used a social media campaign to influence the US election in favor of Donald Trump. The campaign cost $35 million (the $100K the question is referring to is just the cost of ads):
Mueller's investigation also found that Russia was backing a $35 million operation to meddle with US politics through social media.
The money was spent between January 2016 and June 2018 and dedicated to spreading disinformation on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. The operation ran like a professional social media marketing campaign, with specific departments in search engine optimization and graphic design, along with a staff of hundreds who posted on social networks.
The group behind the effort, the Internet Research Agency, was directed to support Trump's campaign and attack Clinton, according to the investigation.
The operation also spent $60,000 on Facebook ads, $6,000 on Instagram ads and $18,000 on Twitter.
The details can be seen in the Mueller Report starting at page 14. A lot of specifics are redacted, but the report refers to and cites internal IRA documents as evidence, as well as statements by Facebook.
answered 1 hour ago
timtim
18.7k114982
18.7k114982
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
add a comment |
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
I didn't ask what Mueller found. I asked whether any evidence has been presented. You're telling me "read the report to see".
– einpoklum
53 mins ago
add a comment |
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+1 for asking about the real facts. It is unlikely, that investigation is over, leaving some real evidence. Democrats are already gone wild, even without evidences. I don't think, that oppositioners to Trump would miss anything, that can be treated like evidence.
– user2501323
2 hours ago
3
If you think this happened, and you think the Russian government paid for it, I don't quite understand the doubts. Governments don't pay people to troll for the lolz. What do you think Russia would be trying to accomplish, besides political goals?
– Obie 2.0
2 hours ago
3
My main question is, regardless of who's behind it, why you think it might just be disorganized trolling: " more like glorified trolling than international political interference". Governmental or non-governmental groups are prone to spend large sums of money just for the fun of it. Occam's razor: why does a group spend lots of money spreading political advertisements?
– Obie 2.0
1 hour ago
1
"On that note - supposedly factual statements in the report which have no source, or whose source supposedly exists but cannot be seen due to a redaction - are not evidence revealed by the redacted report. My question is about evidence revealed in this release." 1) Edits made to invalidate answers aren't a good idea, as you know. 2) Given that report is full of redactions, if you want to invalidate all the quotes from IRA documents that don't have an explicit source, you're excluding most of the interesting and especially new information.
– Obie 2.0
36 mins ago
1
If a direct quote or paraphrase has its source redacted, that's no different from an anonymous source in a newspaper article, albeit more annoying. It seems arbitrary to me to exclude that, and certainly not implied in the common understanding of the word evidence. If I could provide the original IRA documents or a video of some IRA person chatting with Mueller, I would, but alas, grand jury investigations and all. I've provided evidence. It may not be persuasive enough for everyone, but that does happen.
– Obie 2.0
25 mins ago